Legislature(2013 - 2014)CAPITOL 106

01/31/2013 08:00 AM House STATE AFFAIRS


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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
*+ HB 75 CONTRIBUTION FROM PFD: AUDITS; UNIVERSITY TELECONFERENCED
Moved Out of Committee
*+ HB 10 EXEC ETHICS: LEGAL FEES/FAMILY TRAVEL TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
        HB  75-CONTRIBUTION FROM PFD: AUDITS; UNIVERSITY                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
8:05:32 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LYNN announced  that the first order of  business was HOUSE                                                               
BILL NO.  75, "An  Act repealing  certain audit  requirements for                                                               
entities receiving  contributions from permanent  fund dividends;                                                               
requiring each campus of the University  of Alaska to apply to be                                                               
included  on   the  contribution  list  for   contributions  from                                                               
permanent fund  dividends; and requiring  a university to  pay an                                                               
application  fee  for  each  campus   separately  listed  on  the                                                               
contribution   list  for   contributions   from  permanent   fund                                                               
dividends."                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
8:05:50 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PAUL  SEATON, Alaska State  Legislature, presented                                                               
HB  75  as  sponsor.   He  reviewed  that  the  "Pick.Click.Give"                                                               
program was  established by the  [25th Alaska  State] Legislature                                                               
as a  simple way  for Alaskans  to designate  a portion  of their                                                               
permanent  fund  dividend  (PFD)  as  a  donation  to  charities.                                                               
Currently,  he  stated,  nonprofit  organizations  with  a  total                                                               
budget of less than $250,000  are exempt from the financial audit                                                               
required  of  nonprofit  organizations  with a  total  budget  of                                                               
$250,000 or  greater wishing  to participate  in Pick.Click.Give.                                                               
He  clarified  that the  audit  is  a  financial  one done  by  a                                                               
certified public accountant (CPA); it  is not an Internal Revenue                                                               
Service  (IRS)  audit.    He  reviewed that  the  IRS  990  form,                                                               
[included in  the committee packet],  is 12 pages in  length, was                                                               
revised in  2008, and not  only ensures  nonprofit organizations'                                                               
income and  expense numbers match,  but also  considers conflicts                                                               
of interest and governance.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
8:07:55 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   SEATON   explained   that  the   current   audit                                                               
requirement  is problematic  for a  nonprofit organization  that,                                                               
for  example, makes  $260,000 a  year,  because the  cost of  the                                                               
audit  is  $7,000-$12,000.   He  opined  that  the purpose  of  a                                                               
nonprofit  organization  is to  accomplish  its  mission, not  to                                                               
employ CPAs.   Representative  Seaton said  there is  no question                                                               
that  CPA  audits  are  best  practices;  however,  he  said  the                                                               
question is whether  the state should require a CPA  audit from a                                                               
small  entity simply  to allow  people  to donate  money to  that                                                               
entity.   He  questioned why  it is  necessary to  disadvantage a                                                               
smaller nonprofit  organization with an onerous  requirement that                                                               
is  not required  of larger  nonprofit  organizations until  they                                                               
reach $500,000 in federal funds.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  relayed that many  people who did  not see                                                               
their charity on the  Pick.Click.Give list mistakenly interpreted                                                               
that  to mean  that the  charity had  lost its  nonprofit status,                                                               
which he said  is "another reason to  get rid of this."   He said                                                               
The Rasmuson Foundation and other  entities are trying to make it                                                               
very easy for people to  donate to the organizations they support                                                               
and are  happy to have  more nonprofit  organizations participate                                                               
in the Pick.Click.Give program.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
8:11:20 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  said the  proposed legislation  would also                                                               
correct an oversight  in the original legislation.   He explained                                                               
that all  the nonprofits pay  a $250 administrative fee,  but the                                                               
University of Alaska campuses were  left out of that requirement.                                                               
He offered his  understanding that the University  of Alaska does                                                               
not mind being asked to pay that fee.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
8:12:21 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON, in  response to  the chair,  relayed that                                                               
the  CPA  audit looks  at  finances  and account  balancing,  not                                                               
whether the expense should have been  made.  He said the idea for                                                               
the bill came  from a complaint from the Seward  Senior Center in                                                               
Seward, Alaska, which was  generating $3,000-$4,000 in donations,                                                               
while  facing an  audit  that  was going  to  cost  $12,000.   He                                                               
remarked that  the CPA audit is  not even reviewed.   In response                                                               
to a follow-up question, he clarified  that a CPA audit would not                                                               
determine  the legitimacy  of a  nonprofit organization;  that is                                                               
something the IRS would do.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
8:15:26 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GATTIS  said she  understands best  practices, but                                                               
questioned what  the other purpose  of the [CPA] audit  could be.                                                               
She asked if the audit is open to the public.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
8:16:23 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
HEATHER BEGGS,  Staff, Representative  Paul Seaton,  Alaska State                                                               
Legislature, on  behalf of Representative  Seaton, sponsor  of HB
75, stated, "Both  the 990 and CPA audits do  report some program                                                               
activities of  nonprofits."  She  said the  IRS 990 form  is more                                                               
detailed.   She  said  both  documents are  open  to the  public;                                                               
although the 990 form is more  accessible.  She relayed that with                                                               
the revisions made  in 2008, "nonprofits are penalized  $20 a day                                                               
every day after five days that  they would refuse giving a 990 to                                                               
a  donor."   The CPA  audit is  an internally  managed file  that                                                               
should be given but is not  required to be given [to the public],                                                               
she said.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GATTIS asked  Ms. Beggs to confirm  that [the CPA]                                                               
audit will not necessarily clarify  for donors how their money is                                                               
spent.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. BEGGS answered that is correct.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
8:17:47 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER  asked if  any nonprofit  501(c)(3) willing                                                               
to  fill  out the  990  form  is eligible  to  be  listed in  the                                                               
Pick.Click.Give program.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
8:18:23 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. BEGGS answered that there  are other requirements, upon which                                                               
she suggested  the Foraker  Group could  expound, but  said every                                                               
organization must be  a 501(c)(3), which is why  the bill sponsor                                                               
feels  the  990  form  is  the  best  accountability  (indisc.  -                                                               
overlapping  voices).   In response  to follow-up  questions, she                                                               
indicated  that  the  status  of  the  University  of  Alaska  is                                                               
specified in statute, and she  offered her understanding that the                                                               
university is "the  only other exception," but  again deferred to                                                               
the Foraker Group for further details.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER  stated support  of the  sponsor's "getting                                                               
this through."                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
8:19:43 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER stated his belief  that the audit became an                                                               
eligibility requirement because the bar was  so high.  He said he                                                               
thinks it  is great to take  that bar away, as  long as everybody                                                               
gets "a fair shake," and  he questioned whether "we" are prepared                                                               
to make  sure everyone can  apply on  equal terms.   He mentioned                                                               
public  schools.    He  said  he  was  thinking  about  religious                                                               
nonprofit organizations  and "how that eligibility  is required."                                                               
He indicated that  the IRS has made changes  related to 501(c)(3)                                                               
organizations, but stated that "they weren't that difficult."                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
8:20:51 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   SEATON  said   the  general   purpose  of   [the                                                               
Pick.Click.Give program]  is to  enable people to  give donations                                                               
with ease.  He said  generally people give money to organizations                                                               
they  know.    He  stated that  really  small  organizations  are                                                               
already exempt; [the proposed] legislation  is designed for those                                                               
organizations with budgets over $250,000.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
8:23:22 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KELLER said  he  understands the  purpose of  the                                                               
proposed  legislation, but  clarified that  he wants  to know  if                                                               
[the division] is prepared for  the increased number of nonprofit                                                               
organizations that might participate  in Pick.Click.Give if HB 75                                                               
passes.   Further, he  expressed concern that  there would  be an                                                               
equal basis of qualification for all charities.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON responded  that  HB 75  would  get rid  of                                                               
inequality.  Regarding  the concern about being  prepared for the                                                               
change,  he   noted  that   representatives  from   the  Rasmuson                                                               
Foundation  and  the division  were  available  to testify.    He                                                               
related  that  "they"  have  not   expressed  concern  about  the                                                               
additional  work that  may result  from  allowing more  nonprofit                                                               
organizations into the Pick.Click.Give program.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
8:26:29 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. BEGGS,  in response to  Representative Isaacson,  stated that                                                               
the  990 forms  were  all changed  in 2008  and  are "tiered"  to                                                               
accommodate  organizations   with  smaller  budgets,   but  still                                                               
include "all the same accountable categories."                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ISAACSON asked if the intent  of HB 75 is to allow                                                               
nonprofit organizations  to use whichever  form they file  to the                                                               
IRS as the form they submit to the Pick.Click.Give program.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON answered that is correct.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
8:28:46 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HUGHES noted  that the 990 form  lists the purpose                                                               
of the nonprofit organization.   She further noted that 990 forms                                                               
can be  accessed easily on  line.  She offered  her understanding                                                               
that [Alaska] has  one of the highest  nonprofit organizations to                                                               
population  ratios,  which  she  said  could  mean  a  long  list                                                               
burdening the division; however,  she recollected hearing about a                                                               
requirement wherein  "they have  to receive  a certain  amount of                                                               
their revenue  income via  donations" - an  amount that  she said                                                               
seemed  high, such  as $100,000  -  and she  suggested that  that                                                               
detail could limit the rise in program participants.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
8:30:26 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  BEGGS   suggested  that   Representative  Hughes   might  be                                                               
referring to the  "one-third public support test,"  which is part                                                               
of the 990 form requirement  for nonprofit organizations, but not                                                               
part of the Pick.Click.Give application.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
8:30:50 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS  pointed to  a research  brief from                                                               
Legislative Legal and Research Services,  dated 1/24/13, in which                                                               
it  is  noted  that  Diane  Kaplan,  president  of  the  Rasmuson                                                               
Foundation,  testified  in  2007   that  there  were  budget  and                                                               
staffing requirements  related to  qualifications of  a nonprofit                                                               
organization to  take part  in the  Pick.Click.Give program.   He                                                               
asked for details regarding those requirements.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
8:31:22 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  BEGGS  deferred  to  other   testifiers  to  answer  further                                                               
questions.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
8:32:02 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MIKE  WALSH,  MPA,  Ph.D., Vice  President,  Operations,  Foraker                                                               
Group,  in response  to  the chair,  explained  that the  Foraker                                                               
Group  is  a  501(c)(3) nonprofit  management  core  organization                                                               
whose  job  is  to  strengthen  nonprofit  organizations  through                                                               
education,  training,  organizational   development,  and  shared                                                               
financial  human  services.     In  response  to  [Representative                                                               
Hughes'] previous  mention of a  $100,000 price  point, confirmed                                                               
that  that  pertains  to a  requirement  of  the  Pick.Click.Give                                                               
program  wherein an  organization must  receive 5  percent or  at                                                               
least $100,000 of its revenue  from donated sources.  In response                                                               
to Representative  Isaacson, he clarified, "...  whichever is the                                                               
lower."                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
8:34:38 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DR. WALSH, in response to  a question from Representative Keller,                                                               
stated that there is little  administrative burden anticipated as                                                               
a  result   of  HB  75,   because  the  process  for   taking  in                                                               
applications is on line and simple.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
8:36:19 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KATHLEEN   LIGHT,   Executive   Director,  Ketchikan   Arts   and                                                               
Humanities Council  (KAHC), testified in  support of HB 75.   She                                                               
stated  that  KAHC  cannot  participate  in  the  Pick.Click.Give                                                               
program because  it is  too great  a financial  burden to  do so.                                                               
She  said  the program  is  an  extraordinary means  to  increase                                                               
funding  for   many  nonprofit  organizations,   as  well   as  a                                                               
philanthropic    opportunity    for   Alaskan    citizens,    and                                                               
participation in  the program gives  a "stamp of approval"  to an                                                               
organization;  however,  ironically the  program  disenfranchises                                                               
those organizations that cannot  participate because of its cost.                                                               
Ms. Light  said KAHC receives  numerous calls from  people asking                                                               
why the  council is not  in the Pick.Click.Give program,  and has                                                               
discovered later that those people  are not donating money to the                                                               
council,   because   they   have  already   given   through   the                                                               
Pick.Click.Give program.   Under HB  75, she said, KAHC  would be                                                               
financially able to participate in the Pick.Click.Give program.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. LIGHT relayed  that KAHC was established in 1953,  has been a                                                               
nonprofit  organization   since  1970,   and  has  a   budget  of                                                               
approximately  $320,000.   She said  the council  receives grants                                                               
from the City  of Ketchikan, the Ketchikan Borough,  the State of                                                               
Alaska,  the  Alaska State  Council  on  the Arts,  the  National                                                               
Endowment for  the Arts, Westaff  (ph), the  Rasmuson Foundation,                                                               
and the Murdock Trust.  She  said it is not unusual for nonprofit                                                               
organizations in Alaska to receive  grants from so many different                                                               
sources, all of which require  the 990 form, which is "sufficient                                                               
for them  in reviewing our  finances and  our standing as  a good                                                               
nonprofit."                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
8:39:46 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ANGELA RODELL, Deputy Commissioner,  Department of Revenue (DOR),                                                               
said  she  was present  to  answer  questions  on behalf  of  the                                                               
Permanent  Fund  Division.    In  response  to  a  question  from                                                               
Representative  Keller, she  stated that  HB 75  would not  place                                                               
additional burden  on the Permanent  Fund Division, and  said the                                                               
department   is  comfortable   with  the   affect  the   proposed                                                               
legislation may have.   In response to a  follow-up question, she                                                               
said  the  $250  application  fee would  sufficiently  cover  the                                                               
division's  cost  in running  the  Pick.Click.Give  program.   In                                                               
response  to the  chair, she  confirmed that  the fiscal  note is                                                               
zero because  there would be  no additional cost to  the division                                                               
as a result of HB 75.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
8:41:28 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DANA   PAPERMAN,  Executive   Director,  Seward   Senior  Center,                                                               
testified  in support  of HB  75.   She related  that the  Seward                                                               
Senior  Center has  served  seniors and  social  services for  35                                                               
years.   She  thanked the  bill  sponsor for  bringing forth  the                                                               
legislation under House Bill 302 in  2012 and again as HB 75 this                                                               
year.      She  said   the   Seward   Senior  Center   became   a                                                               
Pick.Click.Give recipient in  the first year of  the program, and                                                               
it received $50  from those known personally to the  center.  Ms.                                                               
Paperman  indicated  that  she worked  in  partnership  with  the                                                               
Seward   Community  Foundation,   which   helps  finance   direct                                                               
marketing in  the community, to  increase local awareness  of the                                                               
Pick.Click.Give program and the  recipients in Seward who benefit                                                               
from it,  and in the  second year of the  Pick.Click.Give program                                                               
the  Seward  Senior Center  received  $1,100,  again coming  from                                                               
friends of  the center.   However, she  stated that in  2011, the                                                               
center's  budget climbed  above the  $250,000 mark  that requires                                                               
the  audit, which  is a  financial  burden on  the Seward  Senior                                                               
Center.  She said the  Pick.Click.Give program created a valuable                                                               
avenue for the center to  increase its unrestricted funds without                                                               
creating a burden on the center's  funds or operating staff.  She                                                               
encouraged the  committee to support  HB 75 and to  help Alaska's                                                               
nonprofit organizations.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
8:43:23 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LYNN,  after ascertaining  that there was  no one  else who                                                               
wished to testify, closed public testimony.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
8:43:33 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER  said he thinks HB  75 is a good  bill, and                                                               
he  expressed his  hope that  the testimony  that had  been heard                                                               
would be helpful in continued process of hearing the bill.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
8:43:54 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GATTIS commented  that  the proposed  legislation                                                               
would  provide generous  Alaskans the  opportunity to  give where                                                               
they choose,  and she said  she cannot  find a problem  with [the                                                               
proposed legislation].                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
8:44:15 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GATTIS moved  to report  HB 75  out of  committee                                                               
[with  individual  recommendations]  and  the  accompanying  zero                                                               
fiscal notes.   There being no objection, HB 75  was reported out                                                               
of the House State Affairs Standing Committee.                                                                                  

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
1 HB0075A.pdf HSTA 1/31/2013 8:00:00 AM
HB 75
2 HB 75 sponsor statement.pdf HSTA 1/31/2013 8:00:00 AM
HB 75
3 HB 75 About Pick.Click.Give.pdf HSTA 1/31/2013 8:00:00 AM
HB 75
4 HB 75 Alaska Statute 43.23.062.pdf HSTA 1/31/2013 8:00:00 AM
HB 75
5 HB 75 IRS Form 990 for tax-exempt organizations.pdf HSTA 1/31/2013 8:00:00 AM
HB 75
6 HB 75 Letters of Support.pdf HSTA 1/31/2013 8:00:00 AM
HB 75
7 HSTA Research HB 75 1-24-2013 13-157.pdf HSTA 1/31/2013 8:00:00 AM
HB 75
8 HB075-DOR-PFD-01-30-13.pdf HSTA 1/31/2013 8:00:00 AM
HB 75
1 HB 10 v. A.pdf HSTA 1/31/2013 8:00:00 AM
HB 10
2 HB 10 Sponsor Statement for v. A.pdf HSTA 1/31/2013 8:00:00 AM
HB 10
3 HB 10 Sectional Analysis for v. A.pdf HSTA 1/31/2013 8:00:00 AM
HB 10
4 HB 10 Legal Opinion - Exec. Ethics.pdf HSTA 1/31/2013 8:00:00 AM
HB 10
5 HB 10 Regulations 9 AAC 52-040.pdf HSTA 1/31/2013 8:00:00 AM
HB 10
6 HB 10 Regulations 9 AAC 52-045.pdf HSTA 1/31/2013 8:00:00 AM
HB 10
7 HB010-LAW-CIV-01-25-13.pdf HSTA 1/31/2013 8:00:00 AM
HB 10